Those exact words were spoken by Mr Charney, lead counsel for the government's team, at the Ontario Court of Appeal yesterday. This followed an argument that was a jaw-dropping adventure in obfuscation. If his head felt anything like mine during his bafflegabbery, I'm surprised it didn't explode. His ears became increasingly red while he tried to evade direct questions from the bench, which was funny to watch. I'm really tired of the back of that guy's head, I tell you what.
He's the one who announced that there's no such thing as a 'pit bull' at our Remedy hearing in July, 2007.
He also said yesterday that he didn't like his own argument - on that point we can agree.
The day before, he gave us another great zinger: "We're making this up as we go along." No kidding.
He is a good lawyer, they say, and very senior at the Attorney General's office. Your tax dollars at work.
Charney shouldn't tease, though. I thought he was prepared to come clean and admit he's been working for the wrong side all along but it was just a momentary lapse. It must be tough to have to defend a law that is based on propaganda.
Our evidence and basic arguments have not changed. You can view my original notes from 2006 starting with this post, Day One. At the top you'll see a link to Day Three and at that post, to Day Two. They are out of order.
We pointed out various ways in which the Superior Court judge had erred and argued technicalities and subtleties as well as broad-brush principles in an eloquent, clear and persuasive manner. Let's hope it was enough.
*
The Court of Appeal is quite different from Superior Court.
There are three judges and they ask questions and chat back and forth. It's a very pleasant atmosphere and oddly, seems more casual than the lower court.
The government's schtick doesn't bug me as much as it once did and not just because I'm totally used to hearing it. It's because it sounds almost quaint now that most of it is so outdated.
They keep on about 'pit bulls' attacking without warning signs, doing more damage, being dangerous, etc - all the mythology that was debunked four years ago here in Ontario by people who knew what they were talking about. To hear it repeated this week was a trip down bad memory lane.
Think of what's changed since this Bryant nonsense started in late 2004.
Holland repealed its 15-year-old ban.
Lower Saxony changed its law when it was found that 'pit bulls' were the same as other dogs.
More studies have been done into canine behaviour. More bite studies have been done. More data have been collected.
The Vick dogs - what a great thing that was for us because it hit the mainstream media, hard.
We had the Ontario law found partly unconsitutional.
Many places have rejected banning dogs and have brought in generic laws instead.
A lot more has happened that's affected public opinion regarding 'pit bulls' in North America as well as the body of evidence.
We want the whole section of DOLA struck down, not just bits and pieces. Our wonderful lawyers, Clayton Ruby and Breese Davies, explained all that and made many excellent points.
The justices were paying atttention and asking the right questions. The government lawyers were typically disorganized and weren't answering direct questions from the bench. I doubt that will win them many Brownie points - at least I hope not.
All in all, I feel pretty good. There are always times during these hearings when I feel like butting in, saying "No, that's not true and I have the scientific papers to prove it" or "What's your source for that statement? The Star?"
I will try to post a few more details about what happened later but I wanted to put a bit of a summary up.
The bench reserved judgement, which I see as a good thing. Usually, they give their decision right after the arguments have finished. In about 10 - 15% of cases, they reserve it.
We have no idea when that decision might come out.
In the meantime, contrary to the nonsense in the Toronto Star, I feel as confident as possible. We've done what we can to fight this law. Whether it's been good enough remains to be seen.
Since we're Canadians, we're never very confident. It's a national trait - believing that every job could be done better. Whatever.
When a law is based on a lie and then irrational and circular rationalizations are presented ex post facto as 'reasons', you have to believe it won't stand up to judicial scrutiny once the facts are made available. To do otherwise would be to lose faith in the justice system.
I'm not quite ready to lose faith in the Court - since it's the only thing that can protect me from the government.
When I know more or can put together some notes, I'll post further info.